you look at the "wall street journal" and unfortunately angela merkel is sending a message, "my top corporations don't want anymore involvement." >> i agree with fred, it's russian special operations. they're illegal and violating of the geneva agreement. but there are new sanctions that are potentially being prepared. i mean, i think the u.s. is looking at ratcheting it up to match what russia is doing there, but what we really want is for them to de-escalate the situation. >> but when you look at the record of sanctions, rick, through history, going all the way back to cuba and rhodesia and all these places, when they work, it takes a long, long time. >> i would argue putin is making fundamental errors that in the long run are detrimental to his country. the president has said there's no military solution to this so you have to look at alternatives. >> but you're being rational. assuming putin is rational. >> i don't think we should be irrational because he's irrational. >> no, but we have to find something rational to do. >> one of the problems with sanctions here is reports out this morning